You do make a good point, but I'm not sure retail & online can completely go by the same principles, as there is no petrol involved in the one scenario. I understand what you're saying, but let's use another example: I buy something from Takealot and collect it at their Cape Town depot. It's broken and needs to be returned. They send a courier by my house to pick it up, and everyone's happy (and they did do exactly that, in my case).
Terms and conditions?
- Thread starter KZOR
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BioHAZarD
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I think perhaps the crux of the situation would be whether the item was couriered to you in the first place? if I buy an item from JHB and I stay in CPT and the item is couriered where I paid the courier cost then I would expect the seller to pick up the tab for the return. The only problem in the scenario is that if it is user error then the seller is out of pocket. not sure if that helps?
I think the law would look at it from a principled stance that, regardless of whether you have it couriered or drive to the store to pick it up, you are paying the cost of getting the item from the store to your house. In B&M retail law, you also pay the cost of returning it - again, regardless of whether you do that by courier or getting in your car and driving there. I can't go to Game and plead "Come on okes, I had to drive here to fetch this broken product, now I have to drive here again to return it?? Be fair, I'll pay for one trip, you okes pay for the other." They won't entertain such a notion. I'm just trying to understand why, from a principle point of view, online retail should be different.
This is the beauty of a free market, though. Vendors can choose their terms and conditions, and buyers can choose which to support. If Takealot offer free delivery on faulty returns, great - they will make a lot of people happy and get return business. Other vendors can choose whether to match that value-add or not.
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No
No
The reason why i said no to both questions is because WHY should i deem it necessary to contact you in either case. You have been a vendor for many many years and appropriate customer service should be second nature to experienced vendors.
It seems i have come to expect too much from people when it comes to their ability to use logic hence the questions in the OP.
Why do certain vendors go out their way to rectify mistakes and even over-compensate in some cases for their mistakes. And i can name a few.
If that is how you interpret the post then it is not my fault. I made my intention clear.
Most times buyers feel too bad or intimidated to contact "bigger" vendors regarding mistakes or returns. It should not be the case.
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BioHAZarD
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T's an C's from Takealot. Whether or not it has any basis in commercial law I have no idea nor do I care. This is how I would expect to be treated by a online retailer. it would always depend on the individual retailer if he wants to adhere to such a standard of customer service. if you look at the return policy for Garmin they make you pay for the return
Defective products
We do our best to ensure that the products we deliver to you are of a high quality, and in good working order and without defects.
What is a defect? A defect is a material imperfection in the manufacture of a product or any characteristic of a product, which makes the product less acceptable than one would reasonably be entitled to expect in the circumstances. Please refer to our FAQs for some examples.
The following will NOT be regarded as defects and will not entitle you to a return under this section 3:
- faults resulting from normal wear and tear;
- damage arising from negligence, user abuse or incorrect usage of the product;
- damage arising from electrical surges or sea air corrosion;
- damage arising from a failure to adequately care for the product;
- damage arising from unauthorized alterations to the product;
- where the specifications of a product, although accurately described on the Website and generally fit for its intended purpose, do not suit you; and
- in relation to Unboxed Deals, signs of handling and/or repackaging.
If you have received a product which turns out to be defective or otherwise of poor quality (save for direct warranty products which are discussed below), please notify us as soon as reasonably possible after you become aware of the defect or poor quality, but in any event within 6 months after delivery / collection of the product (except in the case of an extended supplier warranty, which is set out below).
You can do so by logging a return on the Website, and we will arrange to collect the product from you at no charge. Once we have inspected the product and validated your return, we will at your choice repair / replace the product (if such repair is possible / we have the same product in stock to use as a replacement) or credit your account with the purchase price of the product (or refund you if that is your preference). If the repair / replacement takes longer than 21 days, we will get in touch with you to see if you would rather receive a credit / refund.
Where there is no extended supplier warranty period, unfortunately we cannot facilitate returns that fall outside of the 6 month period.
Where you request a repair / replacement of an Unboxed Deal and a repair is not possible, we will see if we have a replacement Unboxed Deal product in stock (which is the same product, of the same nature and type, as the one sold), but if we do not, we will credit / refund you. A product in perfect condition (that is not an Unboxed Deal) is not the same product as an Unboxed Deal. This is why Unboxed Deals are discounted, compared to products in perfect condition.
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As a general comment we always try to put customers back into the same situation or better in instances where we have faulty mods. But as someone in this thread said earlier, if you buy a tv from game and it breaks what do you do you take it back at your expense. No difference in the event of the mod being faulty which in this instance it was not, the customer was not happy with its performance and we being the upstanding vendors that we are decided to recall the items from the customers and issue them with either a coupon code or a refund. Please note that the device was not faulty it just did not perform to the customers satisfaction. So in saying that did we have to offer a refund or coupon code No we didn't, but because we abide by our ethos of always supplying a quality product at a reasonable price we did the honorable thing of calling them all back.
Only then to be taken to task before we could even remedy the problem on social media, how is that fair. The same applies here we would have refunded the courier fee and yes it was a oversight on our side but before taking us to task again its splashed all over social media. Without us even been given the time to rectify the problem.
I have no hassle with people taking vendors to task if they have exhausted all other avenues to resolve the issue.
Again i say that if you bought a TV from game and it was faulty would you have incurred the cost in getting it back to the shop or not. What makes vape products any different.
No vendor forces you to buy from them, you do so by choice. We have a reputation of sorting people out when they have a issue if its not self inflicted and in some instances even if its self inflicted.
Regards
Big Guy
Only then to be taken to task before we could even remedy the problem on social media, how is that fair. The same applies here we would have refunded the courier fee and yes it was a oversight on our side but before taking us to task again its splashed all over social media. Without us even been given the time to rectify the problem.
I have no hassle with people taking vendors to task if they have exhausted all other avenues to resolve the issue.
Again i say that if you bought a TV from game and it was faulty would you have incurred the cost in getting it back to the shop or not. What makes vape products any different.
No vendor forces you to buy from them, you do so by choice. We have a reputation of sorting people out when they have a issue if its not self inflicted and in some instances even if its self inflicted.
Regards
Big Guy
This post is trying to answer the op's first post.
Below is a part outlining your rights as a consumer.
Taken from http://www.saconsumercomplaints.co.za/your-rights/
c) Right to implied warranty of quality.
d) Right to warranty on repaired goods.
What should be noted - What is fair.
DaveH
Below is a part outlining your rights as a consumer.
Taken from http://www.saconsumercomplaints.co.za/your-rights/
c) Right to implied warranty of quality.
- If goods or products are of inferior quality, unsafe or defective, the consumer are permitted to return the goods to the supplier without any penalty and at the suppliers risk and expense within a period of (6) six months after receipt.
- Suppliers are obliged to refund, repair or replace the defective goods at the discretion of the consumer.
d) Right to warranty on repaired goods.
What should be noted - What is fair.
DaveH
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BioHAZarD
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I don't usually comment on my dealings with vendors on the forum as I prefer to sort it out with them but I just want to confirm what has been said in this post is a true reflection on how @Sir Vape has always been the very best of vendors with returns and testing of faulty units. I fully endorse their excellent level of customer service.
As a vendor we try to cover faulty goods shipping where ever possible. And if not possible then I will throw in a bottle of juice or some spare coils to cover cost of shipping in most instances.
But. It is not the obligation of the vendor to do this. If they do. Its their choice. There is no legal requirement to do so.
But. It is not the obligation of the vendor to do this. If they do. Its their choice. There is no legal requirement to do so.
While I appreciate the general context of this thread (and think it's a good discussion to have), I think it goes a little far to compare vape vendors (even the larger ones) to a behemoth like Takealot. They own a courier company, after all. 
I just recently had to return a package bought from Loot.co.za and i had to pay for the shipping to get the item back to them.
This is taken from their T&C page:
"You must return any goods in new condition with all packaging and materials. We will refund the purchase price of the goods (minus the direct costs of returning the goods) within 30 days of the date of cancellation.
The original delivery charge will not be refunded and the cost for returning the parcel is at your expense. Please include your order or invoice number in the box of the return so that your refund can be processed."
This is taken from their T&C page:
"You must return any goods in new condition with all packaging and materials. We will refund the purchase price of the goods (minus the direct costs of returning the goods) within 30 days of the date of cancellation.
The original delivery charge will not be refunded and the cost for returning the parcel is at your expense. Please include your order or invoice number in the box of the return so that your refund can be processed."
Holy cow where is the cavalry now? I just made a remark about being big in the industry and never referred to anybody and I got rebuked and belittled.No
No
The reason why i said no to both questions is because WHY should i deem it necessary to contact you in either case. You have been a vendor for many many years and appropriate customer service should be second nature to experienced vendors.
It seems i have come to expect too much from people when it comes to their ability to use logic hence the questions in the OP.
Why do certain vendors go out their way to rectify mistakes and even over-compensate in some cases for their mistakes. And i can name a few.
If that is how you interpret the post then it is not my fault. I made my intention clear.
Most times buyers feel too bad or intimidated to contact "bigger" vendors regarding mistakes or returns. It should not be the case.
"This post is in no means intended to target specific vendors"
If this was the case I think the OP should have refrained from directly copy and pasting the T&C's directly from the vendor's
site. This along with mentioning the YouTube video made it specifically clear who he was referring to. If the OP intended not to target the vendor, the question could have been asked in general, without mention of the YouTube video or quoting from the vendor's website.
Secondly, it clearly states in the T&C's what the vendor's return policy is. The buyer accepted the T&C's when he purchased the product. So in my opinion the whole argument is mute.
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If this was the case I think the OP should have refrained from directly copy and pasting the T&C's directly from the vendor's
site. This along with mentioning the YouTube video made it specifically clear who he was referring to. If the OP intended not to target the vendor, the question could have been asked in general, without mention of the YouTube video or quoting from the vendor's website.
Secondly, it clearly states in the T&C's what the vendor's return policy is. The buyer accepted the T&C's when he purchased the product. So in my opinion the whole argument is mute.
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Initial posting should be covered in the refund, unfortunately it is a win loss situation. Seeing as how the first postage was paid for by the buyer and return of the item.
Just my 2c, I have never had any issues with the mentioned vendor.
Just my 2c, I have never had any issues with the mentioned vendor.
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Before i really lose my cool let's take this slowly since we seem to have a few posters that don't know how to interpret the initial post.
Please please please understand ..... i was referring to this specific situation of mine and was just wondering about a few things.
Myself and a few OTHERS all purchased a item that did not perform as advertised.
Then i start getting responses like the following :
Please be thorough before you decide to advertise your loyalty towards certain parties.
"unless it is due to an error on our behalf."
All i wanted to know was the answer to three simple questions. Is that so hard?
Based on the responses i will sum up the answers as follows :
1) If the product was faulty from the "get-go" who is liable for the shipping?
ANSW: the buyer unless you dealing with a vendor which places a certain value on it's customers
2) If the buyer is liable for the initial postage as well as the return postage,in this case, then is that fair?
ANSW: most feel it is not fair but that seems to be irrelevant
3) Is it a vendors responsibility to ensure that a product being sold is checked and inspected before being advertised?
ANSW: still not sure as no-one has touched on it
Please please please understand ..... i was referring to this specific situation of mine and was just wondering about a few things.
Myself and a few OTHERS all purchased a item that did not perform as advertised.
Then i start getting responses like the following :
and why don't you just add the second half of the statement as well.
Wow ...... did you even read the T&C's especially about the part that the vendor will under certain circumstances cover the shipping?
Please be thorough before you decide to advertise your loyalty towards certain parties.
"unless it is due to an error on our behalf."
All i wanted to know was the answer to three simple questions. Is that so hard?
Based on the responses i will sum up the answers as follows :
1) If the product was faulty from the "get-go" who is liable for the shipping?
ANSW: the buyer unless you dealing with a vendor which places a certain value on it's customers
2) If the buyer is liable for the initial postage as well as the return postage,in this case, then is that fair?
ANSW: most feel it is not fair but that seems to be irrelevant
3) Is it a vendors responsibility to ensure that a product being sold is checked and inspected before being advertised?
ANSW: still not sure as no-one has touched on it
If you remember our conversation over the phone then you could probably recall that i asked you whether i should pay for the return shipping and you said "yes" which means that you were aware of a possible opportunity but did not make use of it.
This sums it up. Thanks
No need to lose your cool or get personal, I was purely commenting on your original post and in no way attacking you or favouring the vendor or anybody for that matter.Before i really lose my cool let's take this slowly since we seem to have a few posters that don't know how to interpret the initial post.
Please please please understand ..... i was referring to this specific situation of mine and was just wondering about a few things.
Myself and a few OTHERS all purchased a item that did not perform as advertised.
Then i start getting responses like the following :
and why don't you just add the second half of the statement as well.
Wow ...... did you even read the T&C's especially about the part that the vendor will under certain circumstances cover the shipping?
Please be thorough before you decide to advertise your loyalty towards certain parties.
"unless it is due to an error on our behalf."
All i wanted to know was the answer to three simple questions. Is that so hard?
Based on the responses i will sum up the answers as follows :
1) If the product was faulty from the "get-go" who is liable for the shipping?
ANSW: the buyer unless you dealing with a vendor which places a certain value on it's customers
2) If the buyer is liable for the initial postage as well as the return postage,in this case, then is that fair?
ANSW: most feel it is not fair but that seems to be irrelevant
3) Is it a vendors responsibility to ensure that a product being sold is checked and inspected before being advertised?
ANSW: still not sure as no-one has touched on it
If you remember our conversation over the phone then you could probably recall that i asked you whether i should pay for the return shipping and you said "yes" which means that you were aware of a possible opportunity but did not make use of it.
This sums it up. Thanks
Stating "This post is in no means intended to target specific vendors", but making it very clear who the vendor is, is just very contradictory, well for me anyway.
Again, referring to your original post, it clearly states that returned postage will be for the purchaser's expense.
The way you worded your post let to my interpretation of your post, and why I said that if it was more generalised it might have been a better approach.
Nowhere did I get personal or favoured anybody.
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3: Is it the vendors responsibility to ensure that a product being sold is checked and inspected before being advertised?
I'll take a stab at this. It's difficult to actually check the device without breaking the seal. All you have to go on is the supplier's integrity and possibly an inspection sticker. Most of these devices come from China - make of that what you will. So, if quality checks are in place before leaving the factory (authentic devices usually fall under this) then unless you as a customer prefer not to break the seal on your newly purchased product (unsealed products bring their own set of potential problems) you need to accept that sometimes there may be a failure. That's why there are refund/replace policies in place.
Which brings us full circle.
Comments?
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I'll take a stab at this. It's difficult to actually check the device without breaking the seal. All you have to go on is the supplier's integrity and possibly an inspection sticker. Most of these devices come from China - make of that what you will. So, if quality checks are in place before leaving the factory (authentic devices usually fall under this) then unless you as a customer prefer not to break the seal on your newly purchased product (unsealed products bring their own set of potential problems) you need to accept that sometimes there may be a failure. That's why there are refund/replace policies in place.
Which brings us full circle.
Comments?
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Wow, some serious blows being dealt here...
I did not think I would ever disagree with @RichJB about something on this forum, but alas I have been proven wrong. Sorry @RichJB
This is the exact same statement I wanted to make, but @aktorsyl expressed my feelings more eloquently than I would have.
@KZOR - I feel for you, but alas I have to say that copying and pasting the vendors T&C's makes them vulnerable as anyone can now go search their vendor sites and if they find the exact wording, they know who is being discussed here.
In my opinion, it is for the vendor to decide what course of action should be taken here. Thing is, if they open the door of "we'll pay for the return and shipping a new product" for one person, they would need to do it for everyone and unfortunately none of the vendors in SA are as big as Takealot (I may be wrong?) and thus they cannot really afford to do something like this.
We have once been approached by a vendor saying that a bottle of our juice, when it reached the client, had leaked. It was due to the previous caps we used which has since been replaced but we took it upon ourselves to not just send a new bottle of juice to the client, without receiving the other back, but we also paid for the shipping costs. But that was our own choice due to a fault we became aware of and corrected.
Good luck @KZOR. Hope you get a resolve on this one way or another.
I did not think I would ever disagree with @RichJB about something on this forum, but alas I have been proven wrong. Sorry @RichJB
This is the exact same statement I wanted to make, but @aktorsyl expressed my feelings more eloquently than I would have.
@KZOR - I feel for you, but alas I have to say that copying and pasting the vendors T&C's makes them vulnerable as anyone can now go search their vendor sites and if they find the exact wording, they know who is being discussed here.
In my opinion, it is for the vendor to decide what course of action should be taken here. Thing is, if they open the door of "we'll pay for the return and shipping a new product" for one person, they would need to do it for everyone and unfortunately none of the vendors in SA are as big as Takealot (I may be wrong?) and thus they cannot really afford to do something like this.
We have once been approached by a vendor saying that a bottle of our juice, when it reached the client, had leaked. It was due to the previous caps we used which has since been replaced but we took it upon ourselves to not just send a new bottle of juice to the client, without receiving the other back, but we also paid for the shipping costs. But that was our own choice due to a fault we became aware of and corrected.
Good luck @KZOR. Hope you get a resolve on this one way or another.
The perks of being a vendor as well as a customer. Personally I never had a problem with the mentioned vendor, always had great service.
I always remind myself that everybody is human after all. I try not to be stubborn and not support a vendor that always delivered good service because of one bad experience. Yes, as a vendor you will always want your customers to return as it shows that you are doing right.
It would would be awesome if the seller paid the shipping but then on the other hand running losses on sales is not good for business same with losing customers.
I think it is important for us as consumers to remember that our vendors need to stay in business in order for us to actually buy vaping products locally.
I know from personal experiences that it is never nice to receive a product and it is not up to standard but it happens. It all depends on both parties willingness to sort out the problem and reach common ground.
Just my opinion.
I always remind myself that everybody is human after all. I try not to be stubborn and not support a vendor that always delivered good service because of one bad experience. Yes, as a vendor you will always want your customers to return as it shows that you are doing right.
It would would be awesome if the seller paid the shipping but then on the other hand running losses on sales is not good for business same with losing customers.
I think it is important for us as consumers to remember that our vendors need to stay in business in order for us to actually buy vaping products locally.
I know from personal experiences that it is never nice to receive a product and it is not up to standard but it happens. It all depends on both parties willingness to sort out the problem and reach common ground.
Just my opinion.
Its a catch 22 here,if a customer gets a faulty product,he will have to ship it back to the vendor at his expense,which is a loss to the customer as he has no control over this,but if the vendor pays for shipping and replaces it,the customer will be very happy,and the vendor loses out on R60-R100
This is where I disagree,if a customer is 'not happy' with a product,and he expects the vendor to pay for the shipping and offer a coupon or credit,then every day there will be people buying mods and tanks,using it for the day,then requesting the vendor to replace it or give him credit because he is not happy with it,resulting in the vendor going bankrupt because his paying shipping fees for everyone,I bought many items before that I was not happy with,it was a bad choice on my side,but I had to wipe my tears and move on
PS. Not attacking anyone or any vendor,this is just what I feel,agree or disagree,I just wanted to let it out
This is where I disagree,if a customer is 'not happy' with a product,and he expects the vendor to pay for the shipping and offer a coupon or credit,then every day there will be people buying mods and tanks,using it for the day,then requesting the vendor to replace it or give him credit because he is not happy with it,resulting in the vendor going bankrupt because his paying shipping fees for everyone,I bought many items before that I was not happy with,it was a bad choice on my side,but I had to wipe my tears and move on
PS. Not attacking anyone or any vendor,this is just what I feel,agree or disagree,I just wanted to let it out
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Guys please don't respond with a reply if you have not watched my video on the product in question. Please!!
We do not have a situation here where a single person buys a mod that he is not happy with.
What we do have is a mod that was advertised but did not perform accordingly and this was a common conclusion reached by quite a few people that bought the mod.
I was compensated with a coupon code but i was just posing a question in the OP regarding liability IN THIS CASE for the shipping ...... that's all.
Please note that the buyer IN THIS CASE loses all the way because not only did the mod he/she was so looking forward to turn out to be a dud but also lost R180 on shipping.
If no-one feels there is a problem with this then fine .... i will accept that despite the fact that i don't agree with it.
That is all i wanted to know.
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In this specific case they should have paid return shipping.
They as a known as vendor of quality products, need to at least test a single unit before listing on the market and selling multiples, to ensure that the product meets their standards and customers expectations.
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They as a known as vendor of quality products, need to at least test a single unit before listing on the market and selling multiples, to ensure that the product meets their standards and customers expectations.
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