The ongoing media war on E-cigs and Vaping industry

alex1501 said:
Nice video, great advice, but people are driven by emotion and not by the facts. Media and polititians are abusing that every single day.
Another problem is who and how is presenting those facts. Even biger problem is that 10 people can stare at the same fact and have 10 diferent perceptions and understanding of the same fact. Who decides the official version in that case?
How many people will beleieve in the "official" story (from the previous video) and how many in the "other" guy's story?
So many questions...:)
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Yes how many vapers here gave us the "facebook facts" that all this is driven by big tobacco and big pharma? With no proof, just facebook conspiracy theories? Hell you even played with your Ouija board and rolled a few dolosse and gave your "facts" that Im a government official with an agenda. A few others also looked how the bones fall to get their conspiracies concluded.
 
Jean claude Vaaldamme said:
Hell you even played with your Ouija board and rolled a few dolosse and gave your "facts" that Im a government official with an agenda.
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Nope. For the record, the only fact I've stated 2x, was that you defend big tax on various things, the rest was me questioning and voicing possble reason/motivation behind it. I've never before met anyone liking extra taxes so much .;)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:
Yes how many vapers here gave us the "facebook facts" that all this is driven by big tobacco and big pharma? With no proof, just facebook conspiracy theories?
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No idea about facebook (one of the few people not going there) , but if media is splling straight out lies about vaping on a daily basis, what is so wrong with voicing the theories about where is all the wind coming from? " If it stinks like a big pharma and is corrupted like a big pharma, very probably is the big pharma."
If you are waiting for the proof of it, you'll probably never get one that is the court worthy.
 
alex1501 said:
Nope. For the record, the only fact I've stated 2x, was that you defend big tax on various things, the rest was me questioning and voicing possble reason/motivation behind it. I've never before met anyone liking extra taxes so much .;)



No idea about facebook (one of the few people not going there) , but if media is splling straight out lies about vaping on a daily basis, what is so wrong with voicing the theories about where is all the wind coming from? " If it stinks like a big pharma and is corrupted like a big pharma, very probably is the big pharma."
If you are waiting for the proof of it, you'll probably never get one that is the court worthy.
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Its not about liking taxes, its pure economics. How much money does it cost the state the uphold/maintain all our roads? How much does claims against the road accident fund cost the state? Accidents causing extra burden on state hospitals? This is just a portion there are many other costs/burdens just from roads, accidents, cars etc. So where must this money come from? Taxes fuel levies etc.
Whether these taxes/levies are allocated/ used correctly in our specific country, has nothing to do with the basic econimic principle.

As for your big pharma etc theories. Yes you may spread conspiracy theories as much you like. Its been done for decades and will contunue. Unfortunately as soon as intelligent debates start, most people laught at the conspiracy theorists. @RichJB gave facts here. So that sort of eliminated tobacco companies from the conspiracy theories. Now if you use some logic, if big pharma is behind these vape propaganda, why would they not rather use their money etc. to presure for example polititians in the US to apply less pressure on tobacco, so tobacco sales would increase and thus the later need for their products? Surely if your conspiracy theories that big pharma want people to smoke and get ill, are true, its much easier to pressure politians to lower taxes on ciggies, lower legal age, easier advertising etc etc? Than to target a small market like vaping?
If you dont have the facts, some logic get get you a long way.

Big pharma was also mentioned in vaping bans in other countries like India etc. Now just a note, I have not done any reading/studies on this subject so just guessing here. India and other countries mentioned strikes me as a countries where the masses are poor like many african countries and the state also dont have money for great healthcare for the masses. Someone can correct me here if Im wrong.

Now these type of countries dont have the funds, people just get basic healthcare and if you really get ill you just going to die and no real money, top medicine, surgery etc will be spend on you. So why then would big pharma want to get involved in these countries? The masses will not get the option that the government will buy from these pharma companies to prolong the masses life's from smoking related illness?
 
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Grand Guru said:
Media is neutral you said?
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@Grand Guru I think you've posted this in the wrong thread? I never said anything about the media being neutral - in fact, there is only one post in this thread. Furthermore, the video which you posted, although very interesting, has nothing to do with the pending litigation. I'm sure you made a mistake. I often post in the wrong thread, especially when I have multiple threads open!
Perhaps @admin could lend a helping hand here and move your post elsewhere?
 
I'm honestly struggling to see the problem with that news story. It seems that the problem is that the news media are including vaping THC under the general description of "vaping". Is this inaccurate? If using battery power to heat a coil and vaporise THC liquid into gaseous form that can be inhaled doesn't qualify as "vaping", then what is it? Smoking?
 
Let's put it another way. If the US media carried news stories about how wonderful THC cartridges are and how much they are helping the health of people who need to take marijuana medicinally, would the vaping industry still want to distance itself from THC and insist that THC has nothing to do with "vaping"? Or would vaping be very quick to claim the glory and insist that yes, THC is absolutely a part of vaping?

It seems to me that the vaping industry is very quick to associate itself with everything good about vaping but immediately distances itself when anything bad happens because "that's not vaping, that's something else". Sorry but vaping can't be whatever suits the industry at the time. Either THC is part of vaping or it isn't. Which of the two is it?
 
RichJB said:
Let's put it another way. If the US media carried news stories about how wonderful THC cartridges are and how much they are helping the health of people who need to take marijuana medicinally, would the vaping industry still want to distance itself from THC and insist that THC has nothing to do with "vaping"? Or would vaping be very quick to claim the glory and insist that yes, THC is absolutely a part of vaping?

It seems to me that the vaping industry is very quick to associate itself with everything good about vaping but immediately distances itself when anything bad happens because "that's not vaping, that's something else". Sorry but vaping can't be whatever suits the industry at the time. Either THC is part of vaping or it isn't. Which of the two is it?
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you make a very good point here @RichJB
THC being part of vaping or not

But just from my own perspective THC is different to normal nicotine juice vaping in that its not there for helping to quit smoking. It serves other purposes.

My own view on vaping is that it's basically a process that delivers nicotine with reduced harm. And it helps to quit stinkies.
 
This is where the industry needs clarity. Take a look at this article for example. It is carried by vaping360.com and the headline is:

Best Pre-Filled THC Oil Cartridges 2019
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The article appears under the general website category "Best vape cartridges 2019". So clearly, vaping360.com consider THC to be a legit sub-category of vaping. If not then why are they reviewing THC cartridges if it has nothing to do with vaping?

From the reviews, it appears that there are many reputable and good quality THC cartridges on the market. The cartridges seem to use exactly the same technology that our pods do: there is a battery, the cartridge slots onto the battery and is fired with a button, heating up a coil which vaporises the THC liquid, allowing it to be inhaled. If that isn't "vaping" then how do we describe it?

 
RichJB said:
I'm honestly struggling to see the problem with that news story. It seems that the problem is that the news media are including vaping THC under the general description of "vaping". Is this inaccurate? If using battery power to heat a coil and vaporise THC liquid into gaseous form that can be inhaled doesn't qualify as "vaping", then what is it? Smoking?
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My opinion is that it is indeed vaping and I think the problem has arisen from the very first reports of the deaths, before it was known what the victims had vaped. Right at the beginning the media was not at fault for reporting "vaping deaths" - that's all that was known at that time.

Unfortunately, they continue to associate vaping with their sensational headines. They should not be using the word "vaping" at all. They could, for example, easily write, "Blackmarket THC causes another death". But - how can they when some of the victims are not saying that they vaped THC?

What is needed and is unlikely to happen, is for the media to start publishing articles which makes it perfectly clear that the deaths are not related to e-liquid. But - are they sure that it is not? Are we sure that it is not? Perhaps some of the victims are telling the truth when they say they vaped e-liquid. But dig further and one will probably find that it was bought on the street and not from a reputable vape shop.
 
Hooked said:
My opinion is that it is indeed vaping and I think the problem has arisen from the very first reports of the deaths, before it was known what the victims had vaped. Right at the beginning the media was not at fault for reporting "vaping deaths" - that's all that was known at that time.

Unfortunately, they continue to associate vaping with their sensational headines. They should not be using the word "vaping" at all. They could, for example, easily write, "Blackmarket THC causes another death". But - how can they when some of the victims are not saying that they vaped THC?

What is needed and is unlikely to happen, is for the media to start publishing articles which makes it perfectly clear that the deaths are not related to e-liquid. But - are they sure that it is not? Are we sure that it is not? Perhaps some of the victims are telling the truth when they say they vaped e-liquid. But dig further and one will probably find that it was bought on the street and not from a reputable vape shop.
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I hear you @Hooked and you are correct because we don't know all the details about each person who landed up in hospital and exactly what they vaped.

But I would find it hard to believe that several deaths would happen from normal nicotine e-liquid if it was made properly. Reason is that there are millions of people that have been vaping globally and we have not heard of such tragedies in years.
 
Well, this guy claims he bought nothing off the street, everything was from dispensaries. So even the vaping community's insistence that it's all black market THC carts seems at issue.

I can't blame the medical community for being very cautious about this. If patients are telling them they only vaped nic e-juice, they have to be wary of giving nic e-juice the all-clear, even if they suspect it's all THC. If it does turn out that there is just one batch of bad nic e-juice from one manufacturer, and the medical community has given juice the all-clear, and somebody then does get ill from it, the medical community is in a world of hurt. And doubly so if patients were telling them it was e-juice and not THC.

I also can't really blame the media in this specific case. I don't think they're fussed about the difference between e-juice and THC, it's all just vaping for them. Dave from Dash Vapes is furious that "the headlines try to put the blame on nicotine juice". I don't see that at all, the headline says "Amarillo man hospitalised for vaping". That isn't blaming nic juice, not if one includes THC under "vaping". It's just being non-specific, the headline could mean either THC or nic.

At least the news clip also interviewed the vape shop owner to get his side of the story, which is a lot more than many other news items do. So it's not the most egregiously unbalanced reporting I've seen, far from it.

Finally, I'm a bit suspicious about the patient himself. He says now - after he's received death threats - that he's very specific about distinguishing between "vaping" and "THC". But if that's the case, why did he allow his daughter to write "vaping kills" on the sign? Why didn't he tell her to change it to "THC kills"? I'm not convinced he's upset that the media misrepresented him. I think it's more a case that he's fearful of the death threats he's received. So now he's come forward to try and get the social media crazies off his back.

On that note, did Dave from Dash Vapes think it was a good idea to upload a video in which it is revealed that vapers are sending death threats to people who criticise their hobby? Does he think this is good PR and a good look for the vaping community?
 
Okey guys let's calm down for a second.

Okey the term vaporizing defines something that is heated to the point that vapor is produced correct?

Now if the above statement is correct the following stuff also falls under that as well

Crack
Meth
Smoke machines
Nebulizers
Humidifiers
Kettle

Now Okey if someone uses a car to drive to work or commit a crime do we have to stop driving because the US ARGUMENT is driving is bad so lets ban cars because most of the crimes was with cars not bakkies.

This is nuts period it's just political and a money thing it's not even about vaping guys, it's about kick backs that's all
 
It's all about the money
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Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 
SparkySA said:
Okey guys let's calm down for a second.

Okey the term vaporizing defines something that is heated to the point that vapor is produced correct?

Now if the above statement is correct the following stuff also falls under that as well

Crack
Meth
Smoke machines
Nebulizers
Humidifiers
Kettle

Now Okey if someone uses a car to drive to work or commit a crime do we have to stop driving because the US ARGUMENT is driving is bad so lets ban cars because most of the crimes was with cars not bakkies.

This is nuts period it's just political and a money thing it's not even about vaping guys, it's about kick backs that's all
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Nubilizers, humidifiers dont use heat?
 
I don't think we can steer away from the fact that the consumption of the content of the contaminated THC cartridges is in fact vaping. We might not want to be associated with it - like not wanting to talk about your proverbial brother in jail, but he remains your brother.
 
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